MINDBLOWING! CHRISTIAN SUNDBERG Speaks About HOW to NAVIGATE This REALITY by Letting Go of FEAR!

Today, I'd like to welcome back to the show a very special friend and special guest, Christian Sundberg. Christian, welcome!
Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.
I'm so happy to have you back. I interviewed you a year ago, which was actually my first episode of Conscious Conversations, and here we are a year later. So there's lots and lots to celebrate. But the truth is, I could have talked to you for hours and hours and hours. We're just going to dive right into some of the things we talked about in our last interview and go deeper, if that works for you.
Definitely, let's do it.
Awesome, awesome. Okay, so as we talked before we started recording, there are all kinds of questions I have for you. But to kick it off, in our last interview towards the end, one of the things you said that stuck with me in this past year—I always hear your voice saying this—is that there is nothing to fear, that we really have nothing to fear.
Yes. And I can connect to that, not all the time, but I can. And I want to know more. I want to know what you would have to say more about having nothing to fear, especially with so much fear-mongering happening in today's world.

So, first of all, just a quick disclaimer that there's no good way to talk about any of these things. I mean, we're going to get into spiritual language because it's what we've got, but language is very limiting. And I feel that with questions like this, it's important to get right to the heart of what's going on because we have to go really deep to see the truth of the fact that there's nothing to fear. Yes, so we could say beingness itself, consciousness itself, the substance of life itself, is already whole. It's already perfect. It's already connected to all things. It's not lacking anything. Okay? It's not lacking in any life or power. That is so. So that is like our true nature. Our true nature is total peace, love, and joy. Like that. And that is not tarnished. It's just the enduring substance of life. It's just what it is. It can't be anything else.

Except that we've taken this deep but artificial step into association with form. Okay? That means with all the objects, the stories, the bodies, the identities, and all the rest. And then, in that form association, we buy into perceptions that are not in alignment with the truth. So we buy into perceptions of being powerless, or being not free, or being unworthy of love.

Those are some of the big ones. I mean, then there are many branches from those. But as we bind into those perceptions, we do it so quick. Like, this happens so fast. And it doesn't even require the social context, though that can certainly stimulate it and add to it. What I mean by that is, even in my case, when I first incarnated before I was even born, the density and the rigor of being this limited and feeling like I was cut off from everything—you know, because here we experience such a degree of separation—oh my gosh, it's just crazy how separate we feel from each other and from the whole. We don't feel that unconditional love like every second. So in that state, it just, if we haven't integrated it all the way, if we haven't processed it all the way, it prompts fear. Okay?

So I'm lifting that up though because even though that deep illusion of form has prompted fear, the true substance of being can't be anything other than what it is. And that is the much, much, much more enduring fundamental truth. Okay? So now that we're here though, we get wrapped up in all these stories and all these identities, and we haven't processed everything all the way yet. We have what we could simply say is unevolved in this. That just means we haven't really come to terms with all this and figured out how to be—not just be, but actualize our loving nature here in this great set of limitations yet. We haven't done that yet.

And so we feel all sorts of fear. And then all sorts of ego shenanigans come out of that fear because the ego is just the part of us trying to fix the problem. Like, "Oh my gosh, I have no power now. So, oh look, I'm going to believe this and feel better. Oh look, I'm going to hurt this person next to me and feel better. Oh look, us versus them. My group is now better than your group because I say so. Now look, now I feel better. See, I proclaimed it." It doesn't actually work. Like, we're still wounded as we do that. The ego is just covering up the pain. Right?

But even though that's happening, if we look deep underneath everything, or if we let go of all the form—which can happen at physical death, or it doesn't have to be physical death, it can happen before physical death in consciousness—when we let go of all form, we can find that there was actually never any real fundamental reason to be afraid. Now, but here on the surface, we are in a place of great density. And the human race has got a lot of fear in the basement. Oh my gosh, like our basement as a collective consciousness is full of so much crap. Yeah, like thousands and thousands of years of crap. And we are going through this awakening process in spirit, which means that we are basically processing through the crap. But there's a lot of crap down there. And as the vibration increases, that compels the crap to come up and be faced and processed and dealt with. And so then we see a surface, an external surface of circumstance—political circumstance included, as you mentioned—that reflects these old fear-based ideas that are just deep in our consciousness that we're trying to come to terms with and work through and work past.

When we see that, it can feel really overwhelming and frustrating. You know, it could feel like this context is so big and it has all the power. Like the politicians have all the power, and the corporations have all the power. No, this is so important. This is so, so... I'm very passionate about this. The power lies in that which gave rise to the entire physical experience itself, the entire physical universe. You could say that that has the true power. That the true power is not in human systems. It's not in throwing rocks or moving money around. Like, that is very small local power by comparison. And the true power, which actually has the ability to directly influence the physical through manifestation and through consciousness itself, is consciousness. And you are consciousness. We are consciousness. So all that is to say, we do ourselves a huge disservice when we lose ourselves in hopelessness. Like, when we see the hugeness of the physical context and get overwhelmed, and then we almost unconsciously surrender our power to it. We, as multi-dimensional powerful creative beings, are inadvertently doing ourselves a disservice. You see, because now we think we don't have the power. And then we don't feel. We feel small. We feel overwhelmed. Our own fear gets triggered. Then we get in fear cycles.

In fact, we are powerful beings, and our consciousness is connected to the consciousness of every other player in the game—every other person in the world, every leader you can name, every corporate manager you could name. Like, all the systems are just people. Like, all the governments, all the companies—that's all people. It's all individuals making choices. That's all it is. There's no real system. There's no real government. It's a bunch of people that have a shared idea, and they operate to it every day. That's all it is. And your consciousness is connected to their consciousness. So when you choose to face your own crap—and don't worry so much about everything out there, but I mean, we take ownership for it—but we don't have to let it bring us down. We face our own crap, and we bring love into the world where we are. And we choose hope, and we choose that power. We reclaim our power. And as we do that, it does affect the consciousness of those other people, even if they don't see it.

I went on a big tangent, a long response.
Yeah, well, I loved everything you said. Actually, there were things popping in me. I don't actually know what yet. I'll probably find those out later. But a couple of things that you said just really, really lit me up—the hopelessness, the powerlessness, the separation. And then what you just said about, you know, when we go deep inside, that affects the collective as well. So, you know, I am a big student and teacher of A Course in Miracles. And there are two principles in A Course in Miracles. One is that one loving thought that we have affects the rest of the sonship, which is everybody, the collective. And the other one is that our biggest problem, or our only problem—yes, the source of all problems—is that we believe that we're separate. It's a misunderstanding, like a huge misunderstanding. Yeah. And so I just had this visual of, you know, all of us just kind of going through our days and trying to, you know, get through, and having this, you know, like kind of almost like a, you know, those dogs that have like the cone when they can't—like, we have this cone around our head, you know, and we're just unaware that we're actually connected to...

Yes, yes. So that did something for me. I don't know what.
Yes, very much. I'll just make a quick comment. So your comment about A Course in Miracles and the only error is that again we've associated into something that we're not. So that's saying that's the same as how I started my comment in that we lose ourselves in a negative self-perception that isn't true. And that causes all sorts of fear and shenanigans. Ego rises up out of that. So, I mean, the way I like to put it is, I feel like there are really only two problems on Earth. I mean, there's no true problem, right? But man, it looks like and feels like there's some big problems here. So I'm not making light. I'm not making light of the severity of the suffering on Earth. I'm not. Okay? But all that boils down to two things though, really.

One is ignorance, which is the same thing as what we just brought up in A Course in Miracles—that we just don't know who we are. We just don't see. We don't remember. Like, we just don't remember it. We don't commonly, at the human level yet, though it's growing, yes, that we don't commonly know ourselves as the multi-dimensional beings of total freedom that we really are. That's the first thing—that we're just ignorant to it. Our society is ignorant to it. Like, we don't teach our children commonly in school. And if we do, it's through some kind of religious lens or, you know, whatever. So the first is just that we're just ignorant.

We just don't know. And the second is fear. And all I mean is that we have not yet fully processed this whole experience. And when we haven't done that, when we're afraid, ego gives rise to 10,000 expressions of hurt and insanity. Like, fear is insane. It's a simple way to put it. Like, all fear is insane. And the ego is in service to fear. Like, when we make fear-intentioned choices, we are, whether we know it or not, adding to the insanity, adding to the suffering cycle. Yeah, yeah.

But underneath all that, there is actually no fundamental real reason to fear. Yeah. So when we don't feel it, I feel like looking down those two avenues can be really helpful. So, how can we find what we really are? Well, again, this is not simple to speak to. Okay? It's not like you just perform an action and get a result because we're not talking about physical actions. But meditation. Okay? So basically, go investigate what you are every day in consciousness. Go look, just very objectively, what am I beneath all thought? With full alertness, listen to the silence.

You know, feel the silence. Investigate like a scientist—oh, yourself. What am I beneath all thought, beneath all sense data? So just investigate. And because as we do that, it does reveal itself to us. It's not that we so much go see and we don't find some new form. Actually, we find that we, consciousness, we transcend all form. And then that true nature—it can't be afraid because it's the truth. And because it's so full and vast and perfect—ah, I can't even attempt language to describe the nature of being.

So, that's the first thing—investigate that. Look through, try to find their way through the ignorance. And also, a part of that is intuition. Like, really listen to your intuition. Like, for real. Not make-up, and not a made-up intuition. Like, I'm saying, like, deep down, what is your soul saying? Okay? And then the second one—fear. Like, if we can just allow ourselves to acknowledge where we have fear, it's okay. Like, there's no judgment here. If you have fear and you are resisting something in your life, and it's a repetitive pattern or something, or you have a pain that's with you because of a fear, go look at it. It's going to—it may be the hardest thing you've ever done. Like, if you really look at those that are down there, take ownership for them.

Go look at them. You are worthy to do that. Like, we buy into negative self-perception so deeply here that we don't even know our own worth and our own power to even go look at our own fears. We don't even know they're down there, actually, because the ego covers them up under a thousand layers. And then the world just looks evil, and we don't even realize it's our own fear. Yeah. So as our own fear arises in moments, it's okay that you're afraid. It's okay. Face it. Face it. Process it. Heal it. You know, like, and choose joy where you can. Yeah. If we do those, like, just those two angles, it really helps get to the heart of that suffering that we're all experiencing here. Yeah.

What that's bringing up for me right now, when you separated it into two columns, it's like investigate and look at it, and investigate and feel it. Let's say feel it even. Yeah. And I'm sorry to interrupt there. The reason I'm—I just felt this nudge, like, wait, because the investigation is not just an intellectual act. Like, we tend to think, like, you know, I work with a number of people who reach out to me, and I find that a common theme is, "Tell me the actions I can take to relieve my suffering. I don't actually want to go feel it and look in the dark and do the work.

I just want you to tell me the actions because I really want to get away from it." That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually feeling it, like, for real. Yeah. You know, the deepest, actual experiential processing. That's like, it's not just—I mean, it may start as an intellectual process, and an intellectual process will certainly be a part of it. I'm talking about a very visceral, personal feeling process. Anyway, sorry, I just had to say that.

No, I love it because, you know, I think that we are afraid to look at our fear because we do believe it's real. We're also afraid to feel our feelings. And these processes—what they do, like you said, the ego just has the truth covered in... Can I—I'm sorry to interrupt. I have to say one more thing. I'm sorry. So you made a comment there that I just want to—so you said, "Because we believe our fear is real." Of course, we believe our fear is real. But I just want to point something out. It's that we believe the cause for it is real. The fear itself is—we are feeling what we're feeling.

And that is a very important step of this process that I'm trying to lift up. It is full acknowledgement of exactly what you're feeling. Like, it's the opposite of saying, "Oh, this is not real." Right? It's acknowledging, "Oh, I feel terrified. I feel completely unworthy. My whole life has shown me that I have no power," or whatever. Yeah, yeah. I just want to lift that up because it's not that we go in and we say, "Well, this isn't real, so I should be able to take care of it." I mean, it's darn real to you when you're afraid. Yeah. But yeah, this is about the personal work then of going and seeing how you actually feel and, like, basically, fully evaluate your experience with full feeling, full openness, non-rejection.

That's like the mantra—not how am I rejecting life, how am I rejecting reality? And then open that door instead of keeping it closed. Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for clarifying that. I, you know, well, the course also talks about how everything is an illusion. And a lot of people can use that concept to spiritually bypass. And so, yes, whatever we're feeling is real to us in the moment. It is real, and it's something up for us. It's happening for us. And what you were saying about how the ego covers the truth with so many layers—and this two-column process—what it did for me is it triggered in me this sense of awareness. And the more that we do the meditation and looking at our fear, we're going to become more aware, and we're going to be able to go deeper.

Now, in your book, A Walk in the Physical, there's an essay that I just read today called "The Authority of Awareness." And I'd love it if you could tell us what the authority of awareness is.
Oh, that's actually really—that's a really deep question. So, what it means is, okay, within the world of form, we forget our power and our authority. Like, we become so wrapped up in the story and in the perceptions and in the smallness.

Basically, that's what A Course in Miracles means when it says everything's an illusion. It's not everything's an illusion. It's all form is an illusion, and that which is most real is full of it, and it's real. Okay? So, the authority of awareness means if you believe you can't do something, or you can't question some belief, or you can't open some closed door, or you can't be yourself, that's not true. You are aware.

And because you are aware, and as an aware being, you are a part of—okay, this is careful language—but you are a part of God. And so, as a drop in the ocean which has total power and total sovereignty and total authority, so do you. Like, there's no door you're not allowed to look behind. There's no feeling you're not allowed to feel. There's no belief you're not allowed to change. And if you think there is a reason that you can't, you bought into some belief that says you can't. Go find that.

I mean, you have to be brave. You have to be brave because, you know, maybe it's a religious context. In your whole life, you're told, "No, you're going to go to hell if you don't believe a certain thing, or if you question a certain belief." Well, now you've associated into that belief. You see, you are consciousness first. You then associated into it. That had to happen first. If you reclaim your own authority to choose what to focus on, that's so simple and so powerful. You have complete authority to choose what to focus on, even if you're in pain. Do you know that? Like, there's no reason you have—like, basically, you have the total authority to wield an intention that you choose. Yeah. That's really important. Yeah.

And I'm really glad that we've landed here because I know that that concept, for me—as you know, we talked about before we pressed record—which is some of the stuff going on in the country and with women's rights, it's been that concept for me that's kept me from completely losing hope.

Like, if I focus on all of the propaganda that's out there, obviously I don't feel happy, and I don't experience joy. But also, there is this piece of powerlessness that, as these laws are just being decided or passed, there's a feeling of powerlessness as, you know, a woman in this country. It feels like even if I talk about it, I don't have a say. And yet, the truth is that, you know, I am a part of source. And so, if the thoughts and the feelings and all of that exist in me, just like you said at the beginning, they do exist elsewhere too. Like, they're a part of the whole, and not just one. I'm curious what you'd have to add or say to this concept.

Well, there's a few layers to that. But first thing, I just want to comment briefly, and this is not at all, you know, speaking away or disclaiming or brushing off what you just said. But we're not even human. Like, we're not even human. We are spirit. We're consciousness itself having the experience of being human. We're not even man or woman. We are so knowing both male and female themes deeply and learning them and growing in those strengths because they're both strengths. Yeah. Okay.

So, the reason I start with that is because then, like, when we then is the human like, "Oh, I am this person who is in this category, and this category is being, you know, attacked or disempowered by this other group," it's good to acknowledge that that's happening on the surface, of course. This is, I mean, everything we're talking about is having our eyes open, not dismissing the reality of what's happening. But meanwhile, we can gain some important perspective when we pause and say, "Okay, how am I, as a conscious being, losing my peace in this? Where does this trigger my own negative self-perception that I think this is proving to me, but actually is not so fundamentally real?" Like, we can allow that to help us find in ourselves where we are wounded, where we have fear, where we have smallness. Yeah. Okay.

Then, meanwhile, when we see that out in the world actualizing, it's important not to get the scope size backwards. Like, what I mean is, we tend to look at the Earth, and there it is. Man, it's dense. It's persistent. It's consistent. We've got this political system, which is pretty obviously a tragedy. I mean, I'm not taking a side or anything. I'm just—I mean, it's—I feel like it's pretty obvious that it's a flaw, you know, not the most efficient system we could possibly have.

So, as we see that though, it's really okay. So, it'd be like if—and again, I'm not dismissing this—but it'd be like if a few thousand of us sat down and played Minecraft, you know, and then in the Minecraft world, there were some players who had a lot of resources and were kind of picking on everyone else. We might take that really seriously and get fired up. I mean, when my son plays video games downstairs, I hear expressions of great exuberation and frustration and other emotions being shouted throughout the house because of a video game world he's experiencing.

So, I'm not making light of it. I'm just being a little playful because it's kind of how we are playing Minecraft right now. And I'm like, "I hope they don't get upset." But as we do that though, like, it's also powerful to take a step back, return to the person being in the seat for a moment before we go back into the Minecraft world, and then do what we can where we are—not just with the people around us, but in consciousness space, like we talked about earlier. And then we're empowered. You see, it's about, like, basically, to put it this way, do you need to lose your peace? Like, what?

No. I mean, like, just very, you know, logically, technically, even, is there a reason? Like, is there a reason that you need to—like, how does, you know, is that—um, yeah, yeah. So, the only thing that comes up around that is that the only way to know joy and happiness in this form is to experience the opposite. So, I can't—right? I can't feel happy if I don't know what feeling sad is like.

So, the only thing that I can think of around the question you asked is that there a reason for not having peace would be either one, to see what it is that's taking my peace away so I can heal it, or two, to have the contrast. I wasn't—yeah, I wasn't speaking to the ultimate value of duality though. That's what you're pointing at. Got it. The ultimate value of duality as providing a depth into which beingness can fully know itself and its opposites, right? Including joy. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.

More what I meant was, like, let's say that somebody makes—let's say somebody is in a lot of pain, one person, just one person, because, let's say, their father beat them when they were a child. So, they've got some good reason to be in pain, and they've hated themselves ever since because they bought into that self-perception of being worthless and shameful and powerless to stop someone else from harming them. And then, when they grow older, they have a day or a month or even just a moment where they take out that anger on someone else and kill them.

And it's a murder. And then the news picks it up, and the news puts the murder on, and now a million people hear about the murder. Now, is it helpful to you or to that person or to the whole if you lose your peace? And I'm not trying to be dry about it. We can—when we're connected with each other, we feel.

Compassion is a part of our being. So, I am not saying we're detached from what's happening in others. I'm not saying that. It's just that when that news lifts up that person who hurts someone else, we can see that for what it is—a cry for healing too. And we don't have to lose our peace and think, "Oh man, people are bad. The world's bad." No, no, no. People are afraid. People are hurt. It's like that old phrase, "Hurt people hurt people." I mean, it's cliché, but it's absolutely true. Yeah. Hurt people. And so, as we awaken, we can more deeply see, "Oh, that is my brother or sister who hurts, and they may have hurt another brother or sister who hurts."

Do I need to lose my peace when that happens? No. I can feel love for them. I can feel compassion for them. But our being remains what it is. And then we're better able to act in compassion and be there for others around us. I mean, we may feel sorrow. I'm not saying we don't feel sad when we see the hurt in the world.

I feel sad, yeah, when I see so much hurt. But on the other hand, it would be a mistake. It would be simply incorrect for me to fall asleep into, "Oh, I now have no power," you see, because this person did something harmful to somebody else because—and because they had good—not good reason, but they had causes. And you see, when we see it from the spiritual perspective in our life reviews after physical life ends, the system has all the data. It sees from every perspective. It records it all. It knows it all.

So, when we review our lives, we see it from everyone's perspective, not just our own, because they are us. You see? And then we can see that they chose their choices because they were dealing with challenging things too. Yeah, you know? And that's really what this world of hurt is. It's a challenged, fear-based intentionality running rampant.

So, we don't answer that with more fear, you know, with more surrender of power. We don't need to do that. Yeah. I'm not saying we won't hurt. I'm not saying it's not easy. I'm not saying it's easy. I mean, I can't—yeah. I'm just pointing out though that, in the depth of knowing yourself and what that person is, we know that we don't have to lose our peace in the midst of it. And then we retain our power. Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah. What I think I'm hearing too is that when we have our life reviews, there's an element of understanding because we have more than one perspective. It's such ridiculously deep and thorough understanding and unconditional love that we can't—you know, I mean, like, that's what I'm saying is, like, if we look at that person who was hurt and damaged, and they hurt somebody else, we respect them. We love them. Oh my gosh, you went through that, man. It's not saying murder was a great choice. That's not what we're saying.

No, no, no, not at all. That's not what we're saying. It's just that, from that perspective—because then the person who operated—I'm just saying that, from his perspective, the murderer now—they will see that they will see their—because they responded to fear. You see, they made a fear-based choice.

And we each—not to get down too big of a tangent—but energetically, we are responsible for every single intention, every single thought, every action, every choice. It's all a part of us. You see? Yeah. But it's understood completely that all exists within unconditional love. Oh my gosh, like, this unconditional love cannot be understated. Like, we can't highlight it enough. Like, we could say it a thousand times or put it in the biggest print possible.

You—there's no way to possibly articulate the importance and the depth and the power of that unconditional love that exists for us. And that unconditional love is not an unwise or unintelligent or stupid unconditional love. It is a completely seeing, completely knowing, every detail love. Like, no matter with every deepest, darkest detail that you've ever—like, everything you've ever done that was not super—it's all seen, like, completely, even more thoroughly than you've understood it or saw it. And yet, we're unconditionally loved. Yeah.

So, now I want to ask you a couple of things about this. Yeah. Sorry. We—I'm not sure how to ask it, but it's formulating. So, sure. So, it's like, so why is it so hard for us to connect to unconditional love or to understand? Or, I mean, I'm imagining it has something to do with being veiled, but like, what is your perspective on why this can be so challenging for us?

The human experience is like signing up to lift a thousand pounds, and then you're asking, "Why is it heavy?" Well, because it's a thousand pounds, not two. And what I mean by that metaphor is the amount of limitation and obfuscation—veiling—that we've signed up for is extreme. It's extreme. Like, the density of the human experience—and any experience on Earth, but I'm focused on the human experience—is so dense. It's so off-the-charts uniquely dense.

And so, like, I heard in—Natalie Sudman, I think it was—she said that the guides on the other side saw us like fighter jet pilots who are flying our jets upside down 20 feet off the ground. Like, what she means is the level of rigor and contrast and density that we are working through is crazy high. And so, in that extreme level of limitation, we often don't see and feel the broader nature because that is the nature of the—this level of density necessitates—okay, this perspective necessitates veiling. Not the level of density itself.

The perspective of operating is just the human character means you have to just be the human character. Like, okay. So, but when you're just the human character, guess what that means? You're not the whole. That means you don't feel what everybody else feels. You don't feel the person on the street what they're feeling, and you don't feel connected to the source of all love and joy very much. Like, it's there, but it's deep, deep, deep, deep down, hidden away as a, you know, maybe a quiet voice that pops up every once in a while, and we don't even know what it is. You know?

But that's the nature of being so veiled and dealing with this level of density. However, once we actually—like, really process this level of rigor and density—like, really accept it, really accept it, no more rejection of all the pain, of all the body, of all the limitations—oh my gosh, there is this expansion of being that occurs to that place. And then that place is no longer bigger than you, and the fullness of being once again rises up and can be known. So, that joy and that freedom and that amazing environments of being can be known and felt even as we are playing the deep, dense video game of the human condition. Yeah.

How do we feel it? How do we connect to that—to the truth of who we are?
Yeah. I'll just mention two things. First, I'll reiterate meditation. I won't restate everything we said, but that's really, really important because, as we let go of thoughts and let go of sense data and let go of everything we're not, and become alert—very alert, very objective alertness—who we already are reveals itself once again.

Like, the depths of the silence speak now as we do that. Just as a side comment before we get to the second important point—as we do that, we often find that, when we start looking towards silence, we find ego boundaries and fear. That's okay. Like, if you really look—like, if you really try to stop thinking—like, go—it means you're no longer thinking the ego protective stories either, and it means how you really feel will be rising up. That's okay. Go through it.

Don't—like, on the other side of that is the fullness of being. Okay? So, first is go—go look every day, an hour a day, 40 minutes a day—investigate. And the second thing is follow your joy. Follow your passion. Follow that sense of freedom. Follow the authenticity that you know is in there that you feel in your bones. Just do it. Just follow it. Like, basically, when you choose joy and when you wield an intention of love—and whatever that might mean—kindness, compassion, ownership for your crap—and when you fully be yourself—like, all the way, man. Like, just screw all the societal—like, I'm not saying we need to take our roles seriously.

That's not what I mean. But just all that conditioning that has been heaped on—drop that. You're—there's no reason you can't be yourself. And when we follow the joy and the freedom that is vibrationally returning to who we really are—see, because what happens is, when we buy into a perception that we're not, we vibrationally plummet down to the vibration of that perception. So, when we feel, "I am powerless now," we vibrate—consciousness, you could say, is vibrating at the level of "I am powerless." And it doesn't feel good. It feels bad. It's not a good feeling. What feels good is our true nature—and the joy and the love and the peace and the freedom of it.

So, we can follow with it. We can choose it. We can basically focus on—choose to focus on the love and the peace and the joy and the authenticity in whatever way we personally, intuitively feel called to do it. And that's unique for every person. Like, every one of us has our own—our own nature is unique for every one of us. And that's beautiful. So, what is your nature calling you to be or to do or to say or to not do or to not eat? Whatever it is, you know? Like, what is your—like, the actual nature, not the little voice that's like, "Oh, you're not going to be worthy unless you do something." I'm talking about the joy, man. You got to listen.

You got to listen true. Listen true for that real, authentic you and just follow it. It doesn't have to be a big thing either. It can be like a small thing. It may—maybe it's not even an action. Maybe it's how you sit with yourself right now in silence. Maybe you do feel called to take an action. Maybe you want to go for a walk. Maybe you want to quit your job and go do something completely different. Like, it could be big. I'm just saying, we—because as we begin to say yes to our excitement and to our joy, that's like saying yes to the soul that I'm—I'm from the human personality level—like, I'm listening now. And then we get—and then we get more of it. Yeah.

I'm so passionate about authenticity. It's outside of this podcast. I'm a coach, and I facilitate workshops that help people understand who they are and practice being authentic. And I just interviewed you—a great example of it, by the way. Thank you. To overcome some crap, and you're doing it, and that's awesome. And that was the path—the path to overcoming my addictions, the path to overcoming bad relationships or toxicity was to start being myself.

And I'm still learning how to be myself. I know. It's amazing how not easy that can be sometimes, right? How easy can it be to not be yourself? Or how—in a situation, I might notice, like, "Wow, I just said yes even though I meant no." Yeah, yeah. And it's like, still, even though I've been practicing this, but a woman just—that I had just interviewed—she had said that, and she was a course student too. She was teaching EFT tapping, and what she had said was her perspective was that, you know, the body hosts the soul, and when we release that tension, our soul now has the freedom to express itself as it wants to.

And I just—I love everything about authenticity. And I'm curious what else you might have to add around authenticity in addition to what you just said because I do believe that our conditioning causes us to be inauthentic, and sometimes we don't even know it.

Yeah. The primary reason that we're inauthentic is fear. We do get conditioned to be inauthentic just because of what we've been taught and the path we've worn in the grass. But the most common reason is fear because ego doesn't want us to be judged or, you know, seen as—like, the ego says, "Well, if you don't say this thing, they're going to view you in this way, and then that'll prove to you that you really are worthless." Yeah, you know, because we really do feel some negative self-perception down there, and we're afraid that the other person or the situation is going to prove it to us. You know, as an example, just one example.

So, like, basically, if we become fearless about facing our own fear, what external person or thing can make you be inauthentic? Nothing. Like, what I mean is, like, it's your own fear that is the only thing that you're quote-unquote striving against. Like, you don't even need to strive against it. It's not based on anything real. But it's hard when you're doing it, right? So, when we actually face our own crap and own—like, "Wow, I really feel powerless. I feel victimized. I feel like a victim. I have been—I have that has been proven to me by this relationship and this abuse and this accident or whatever." You know, go into the rejection deep in the body. You know, feel like, where am I holding on to that? Face it. Process it. Heal it. Allow it. Allow it to just—like, let go.

Own how you felt and honor yourself enough—oh my God—honor yourself enough to know, "I feel this way." Like, maybe you're sick, and you're not okay with being sick. It's okay if you're sick. It's okay. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to prove yourself. You don't have to do it. You don't—like, you only think that because you bought into the—now, I—I'm—this is a complex thing we're talking about because this conversation about personally dealing with fear and overcoming it is so unique for every person, and it's so multifaceted. It's so complex.

I mean, we might live an entire lifetime kind of examining, working through one aspect of it, right? So, this is a humongous topic. But I'm just pointing that out in relation to your comment about authenticity because, if you find yourself pulled in an inauthentic direction, okay, that's okay. Go—where's the fear? Like, and it's okay that you're afraid. And then you can just very consciously, you know, "I'm afraid, but I'm going to be myself and say the real thing." You know?

And I happen to work in an environment where there's not always authenticity in my professional life. I've basically decided I'm going to be authentic no matter what happens—while respecting, of course, the culture and, you know, doing a good job and all that. Yeah, of course. But I'm not going to not be me. You know, like, I'm just—I just—I know that I'm not human.

I know that we are here for a limited amount of time. I am not—I mean, it's—I'm not fooled by the great structures of man. Like, I'm just not. Like, they're not—that's not the power. The power is who we really are. Like, we resonate. We shine bright as a spirit when we just be ourselves. Okay? And then—one second comment to that question because it's so good.

Okay, this is so important. Oh my gosh, this is so, so, so important. I wish that every single person on the entire Earth could feel and hear this. You are absolutely worthy of being yourself because the real you is so valuable and so unique and so precious that I can't even articulate it. Like, the whole—how do I put this? Like, there's no good language for this. Each one of us is like a puzzle piece of creation, and you are the only puzzle piece of your color. You really are. It doesn't matter if you haven't made money. It doesn't matter if you can't do something physical. It doesn't matter if you've had this back. It's okay that you've had the pain and the history and the trauma.

You are a valuable puzzle piece that, when you see from the perspective of God, it's like you are unconditionally loved—not as a generic unconditional love, but as a very personal, specific-to-you, you are celebrated for exactly who you are. Love. You are celebrated. There is a celebrative—is that a word?—celebratory element to the love of spirit. And actually, I felt this at the IONS conference last year, and I'm so glad I'm going to see you this year in Phoenix. It's going to be awesome.

I'm so excited to be there. It's going to be awesome. So, in DC last year, I can only describe it like a party where everybody was celebrating everyone else for who they are. So, I'm lifting that up because that is a major block to authenticity when we think, "Well, like, I really am not that important. I'm really not. I'm really just a victim. I'm really small. I'm really powerless. I'm—or I'm really not valuable." No, no, no. Don't believe that. Like, that is not true.

Like, when you look at yourself from the spiritual lens, you will not believe the absolute unique beauty that you are. Like, every soul is so unique, uniquely, preciously themselves—their own color, their own mix, their own—I don't know how to describe it. It'd be like—like, a metaphor I've used before is, like, one soul might be like a grapevine, and another soul might be like an oak tree.

And the grapevine might say, "Oh, I'm—this is a crude metaphor, but I'm not big and tall and strong like this other person." No, you are a grapevine. You produce sweet grapes, and it's freaking awesome, and you're the only grapevine there is.

So, just like—you know what I mean? Like, we have to recognize the incredible value that we each individually have. And then, when we do that, we feel free to be ourselves because, "Oh, well, wait, so what I have to share is actually valuable." Yes, yes, it is. Like, your own self, your own skills, your own quality of being—it doesn't even have to be a skill. Maybe you say, "I don't have skills." Okay, fine. Like, you could still be yourself. Maybe the only thing you can do—maybe you're bedridden. The only thing you can do today is look at the light. Look at the light in your way. Be present. It's just a big illusion anyway. It's fine. You can choose how to be the most you because you're worthy to do that because that's what—gosh, that's what we are.

That's what we're here to do, man. We're here to break those binds and to be our authentic selves, even if crap happens. I mean, like, when I first went through my awakening process, it caused some social friction around me. You know, I didn't mean to. I wasn't trying to cause a problem. But, you know, it's amazing if you wake up one day and say, "Wow, we are unconditionally loved, multi-dimensional beings of freedom and joy, and you have nothing to fear." How many people get angry, right? Because of beliefs. That's okay. That's okay. I'm—we have—but it's fine because, as we choose it, we become empowered, and we can empower others, and we can share the love, which is what we're doing right now. Like, this is sharing that love, man.

Like, even if only one person hears this and is lifted up and has that resonance and feels strengthened, then we've done it. Yes. And then, you know what I mean? Like, that's what this is all about. Yes. Like, hopelessness is the lie. Back to the original point, it's the—it's not even the thing. Like, when we look from the other side at the reality of it, it's like, "Oh my gosh, we never had any reason to actually be that afraid." I—so, so, guess what, guys? Oh my gosh, we're here right now. Like, we are human right now. And I know that you might not think this is a big, special, important day. It's like, you know, like a Thursday, you know, random day of the week. Okay? But this is the critical, valuable moment right now.

Like, just to be yourself and to choose love and joy and peace in whatever way you can—that's what we're here to do. This is the moment. Oh my gosh, I'm so passionate about it because—yeah, I love it. I love the passion. I'm over here just all—you know, fired up. I can feel my heart open.

And what I want to say in addition to what you said was that, when I started my journey, it was kind of—you know, I went through a journey of addiction. And as I started to recover from one addiction, I started to learn that I could be myself. And then, deeper and deeper, I started to realize that the only reason I wasn't authentic was because I was afraid of not being loved—that someone would judge me. Yes. And, you know, but the cost of not being authentic was that I wasn't happy. Yeah. Being inauthentic is not living in alignment, so we don't get to experience the joy out of that. Yeah. And so, as I went through my journey—and even still, there's times where, you know, conditioning says, as a mom, you should XYZ, right?

So, sometimes I go along with it, and I feel, "Oh, that didn't feel good," because I was being inauthentic. But, yeah, the fear of not being loved, I think, is what is the—it's huge. And, like, when you were talking about how we're all, you know, our own color—like, yes. I had this meditation a couple of months ago, and what I saw in this meditation was, like, each of us are, you know, kind of weaving our own little square, and it all fits into this one quilt. And it was so beautiful. It was like, around the world, it was glowing. You know, like, this was just a vision I had, but, you know, I felt like textures and sounds and, you know, like, what you were saying just kind of popped to life—like, we are valuable. Yeah. It very much is like that. What we're naturally contributing is what we're here to do. And that's my question for you is, yeah, is that what we're here to do? Is that why we come here?

I mean, in simple terms, yes. Like, there's an—so, one of the essays in my book is called "Your Soul's Job." And I was just being silly, but the job is an acronym for "Joy of Being," which is another way of saying the real you. The only thing you have to do is be you. Yeah. You don't have to do anything else. You don't—you can't fail. Right? Like, when you truly embrace that and know that, how freeing is that?

And then, from that, you can be yourself. Now, I will say, of course, just practically speaking, that many people—or, you know, when we have deep ego—when we say, "Be yourself and, you know, follow your passion," you know, if we have a lot of fear, the ego might take that as an excuse to go do something harmful. That's not what I'm talking about, of course. I just—to disclaimer, we're not talking about that.

No, we're talking about the real, loving, compassionate you that even owns your own crap and does your very best and is authentic but knows, at the same time, that nothing is required of you, and you can't fail. Like, you only—like, joy is what you're here to be. Joy—not like scratch-the-itch, feel-good ego stuff necessarily, right? That's just—that happens, but that's not what I'm talking about. Joy. You might say, "I've never had joy in my whole life." Okay, that's okay. Start there. "I've never had joy my whole life." Fine. Acknowledge it. Yeah. I applaud your bravery, you know what I mean? Like, you need to honor yourself. This is where I am. Why not? Like, and for each person, it will be its own answer, its own story. Like, you had to be brave enough. You see, you have to be brave. You had to be brave enough to say, "You know what? I actually was inauthentic because I was afraid of not being loved." Do you know how much bravery that takes?

Because that takes you looking at the pain of not being loved and acknowledging that you don't feel loved or that you were afraid of not being loved. That takes a lot of courage. This is a courageous, very humbling process we're talking about here at times, but that's okay. See, that's the quality of intention. That's why—that's why I lift up so much that we're here to wield a quality of intention that is in alignment with love and not fear—not self-protection, not rejection. Love. Like, that means looking and being you—looking at what you actually feel. And that can be hard.

Yeah. But, yeah, you're worthy. You're worthy to do that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you are worthy to do it, and it is very hard. Like, it took a long time. I was 28 when I went to treatment for an eating disorder, and I was 34 when I got sober. So, okay, most of my life, I wasn't—it wasn't even that I wasn't willing. It was I actually just didn't know where to look. Yeah, sure. I think you said in the beginning, it's ignorance, right? Ignorance. You just don't know—not in a judgmental way. No, not in a judgmental way. We just don't know.

We just can't see. True. And, you know, what did it for me was that there was a point where I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah. And the pain had to become so big that I was no longer willing to—so, yeah. So, just—yeah, a point there, like, so that's often how it works. Yeah. And that's okay because what happens is—so, fear—okay, we choose what we choose because we think it's the better option. Yes, right? And then we get—and then we have—so, then we're avoiding fear. We're avoiding the pain. We're avoiding the negative self-perception for so long that we become miserable. We become sick and tired. We—our lives become hellish.

But we think that's preferable. Right? Eventually, enough pressure amounts that you say, "You know what? I had a moment like this. I had a moment maybe probably 10 years ago. I mean, I've had—I'm here to process, so I've had a lot of fear in my journey. That's okay. A lot of fear.

And there was a moment I was in my kitchen. I was making a pronouncement to my beautiful wife in tears—like, the deepest tears—and I said, 'I am effing sick of being afraid.' And this was during my awakening because I had started awakening, but, you know, these things happen in layers. Like, it takes a while to get down to the really nitty-gritty, ooey-gooey pain in the middle, right? But when you're really—like, so what I'm saying is, like, to your comment, sometimes that tension—that hell juice—needs to build up before we have enough pressure that we go, 'You know what? I'm going to go in there and face that.' And I've used a simple metaphor before, but I think it's a good metaphor. When my father was a child, he was afraid of the monsters in his closet.

And he was afraid every night, and he lost sleep every night. Every night, he couldn't go to sleep. He'd lay there. He couldn't sleep. He was so afraid of those monsters. They're going to come out and eat him. For months. And then, eventually, he said, 'You know what? I would rather get eaten by those monsters than have this fear anymore.' And he went into that closet, pushed his way through the clothes, sat on the floor, completely ready to be eaten by the monsters. And they did not eat him because there were no monsters. Our fear is very much like that. We avoid it our whole lives. We avoid our shame. We avoid our need for love that hasn't been met. We avoid it our whole lives.

And then, when we finally have had enough, we go into that closet, and we face it, and we feel it, and we find there were no monsters. There was nothing to be afraid of. But it requires the willingness to go into the closet first, whatever that means for you. And the angels are with us when we do that. I'm telling you, that's the real work. When we say, 'I've had enough of this crap,' and we go, and we go into the closet, and we really face that darkness and that pain in there—powerlessness, whatever it is—we feel it. We allow it. We don't reject it. It heals—not because we tried to get rid of it. We didn't try to get rid of it. In fact, we did the opposite of trying to get rid of it. We went into it. And it heals. And then—and that's how we process it. You see?

I have heard you share that. I think I heard you shared that on the last episode that we did, and it just reminds me of something that my first sponsor told me. She was one of my course teachers, and she said, "You know, go to the edge of fear to see that it isn't real." And something actually came in as you were explaining that story this time that didn't come in last time, which was that "sick and tired of being sick and tired." Yeah. I'm curious, like, what your perspective is on that. Like, is that our true power just coming through, saying, like, "Screw that. Like, I'm not going to be debilitated by this"? Like, it just felt like that was our nature that says, "We don't need to be afraid. That the true self somewhere is like, 'Uh-uh, we're not going to be limited by this fear that actually isn't even necessary to be afraid of.'"

It's a personal shift in intention is what it is—towards the true power, which is love and acceptance. See, fear is actually powerless. Ego is powerless. Like, it doesn't actually do anything. The real power comes from the love and the joy of spirit. It's what we are. So, when we shift our intention in that moment—you know, it might—the physical expression, maybe even the human personality, egoic expression might be, "Screw this. I'm going to go in and face the fear." But what we're talking about is the intention behind it—the why that we're making the choice. The turning around and the going into the closet is an intention. You know?

And so, a lot of people want to hear, like, "Oh, I want to reject my circumstance. So, teach me the new spiritual thing I can do to get rid of it." It doesn't matter what form you use. I don't care if you call it spiritual or not. If you're trying to avoid it, that's your intention, right? If you're trying to reject it, then that's your intention. You see, we're talking about the actual loving yourself so deeply that you actually feel what's down there. That is a quality of intention shift towards the power of what we really are. That's the way I'd respond to your question.
Thank you.

So, I was meditating before our conversation today, and I felt a nudge that there needs to be a focus on the idea of the teaching nature of the vast silence itself because the form-focused personality is always looking in form for the answers. "Tell me the next thing. Give me the next book. What's the next stimulation? Show me the next movie. Show me the next NDE video." I'm not making—like, I mean, it's fine. I applaud people who watch NDE videos, but I'm just saying, like, whatever we can grab onto, we try to grab the next thing.

Whereas there is this tremendous resource sitting there all the time that is waiting to, in the most positive way possible, destroy us. I'm saying that carefully. What I mean is, when we are willing to be broken in the most healthy, beautiful way and let go of all the ego patterns and distractions and form focuses and just be in silence—the silence. When I say the silence, I don't just mean audio silence, audible silence. It doesn't actually have to be audible silence. I'm talking about the silence of the mind, the silence of being where we are now.

And I recognize that it's not pragmatic for many people who have not meditated very much to let go of thinking into silence, but it doesn't matter. It's okay. Wherever you are, it's totally fine. You are right next to the silence right now. You're not far away from it. Like, you're not. So, we can always basically put down all of our bags and bring all of our focus into the present moment and let the deep silence show us where we are unhealed and let it dissolve the mechanisms—the mechanical nature of the human personality and its processes that seem so important. It's the only way I can put this sensation that I felt was helpful to share.

Like, you know, we—I do a lot of talking. You know, I'm on podcasts. I don't feel the need to talk. I don't even really want to talk. But talking is how we've got here. What's more important than the talking—far more important—is the silence within us all that is waiting for you to go to it and see it and look at it. You know, that's the power. That's far more powerful than what any human can jabber with some words or what can be written in a book. So, I just—I felt like that should be mentioned.

Yeah. Well, I'm really grateful that you shared that. I know that I can be someone who is looking externally for the next book or the next video or, you know, and the truth is, like, as I've studied A Course in Miracles, there is a chapter that's called "Rules for Decision," and it's really bringing you back to that place of going inside and asking, "What's next?" and going so deep inside yourself that you actually hear what it is that's not coming from an external source that says, "You need to do this practice, or you need to do this meditation, or read this book, or go to this seminar, or watch this podcast." See, and it's okay that we have those thoughts and that we do those actions. That's totally okay. This is not a judgment of that at all. And it's not like, "Okay, see, this is tricky." We're talking about something tricky because now we're pointing at non-duality from within duality. Okay?

So, here we are, the duality-focused, form-focused being, pointing at that which transcends form. And it gets tricky to do that within duality because we don't have it. That's not how duality is. Duality is, by definition, form. Okay? But if you take the time—this is about using your intention—take the time, notice, "Oh, I feel like I need to meditate. I'm supposed to meditate." Notice that thought. You can even—like, the intuition in your body and mind both will help lift up the next step towards silence—towards, okay, let's not call it even silence at this moment—the next step towards complete ease and no freedom, peace.

I find that, at the human level, something that has been challenging for me personally is that, having touched that space, it is more beautiful and full of joy than any form we could throw around. And so, if I go to a social gathering—like, maybe with my family or something—you know, there's a lot of talking. I would love to sit in silence and share that with someone because, when we both put down the stuff, the beauty of connection between any two of us—like, we are all family.

Every single one of us. If we just put aside our crap and be vulnerable and present and authentic with each other—even in silence, it could be words. Words are fine too. Actions are okay too. Silence is okay too. As we share that space together, oh my gosh, the joy—like, the connectedness that we know with each other is so joyful. It's deeper than any shallow conversation thing we might banter about. I mean, I will participate in banter if that's what's happening. I will banter.

I do a lot of that in my professional life. Banter occurs. You know? But it's okay that we choose something beyond that. One of the greatest blessings of sharing in this way has been that I have been able to meet other people who are awake, and the beauty of those relationships is amazing. And silence is okay there, and talking is okay there, and just being ourselves is okay there. It doesn't matter how old we each are, what sex we each are—you're that's not what we are anyway. We can just be present. Like, it's about a presence more than some action.

hat's a simple way to put that. That's—anyway, it's kind of a tangent, but—
No, it's beautiful. It's actually—and I'm not going to talk too much about this because I know we need to wrap up, but the workshops that I do—they're called "The Mystic's Playground," and it's a three-day workshop where we mix games and just being—beautiful to pull out love, allow ourselves to be authentic, and actually connect.
Yes, that's awesome. You're doing it. Yes.

So, the last time I interviewed you, I asked you three questions, and I just spontaneously had this idea to just ask you one since you've already answered the three. So, I was just recently on a podcast, and I was asked this question, and I want to know what you would have to say. So, if there was one question that you wanted to ask anyone who's listening right now, what would that one question be?

Why can't you be yourself? Like, really go look. Really investigate it. Not playful. Give me the—I mean, you give me an—if you're honest, you'll give me the ego story that why you think you can't be yourself. I'm talking about deeper than that. Really. No. Really. No. Really. And I think that's kind of the theme of what we talked about. Why? Yeah. Why can't you be yourself? Your real self is a multi-dimensional being of love and joy. You really are. Like, we are just playing the human characters. It's really deep. It's really visceral. I get it. Oh my gosh, I'm here too. But no, you really do transcend the physical. It's a real thing. It's not a woo-woo thing. It's not a religious thing. It's just the physics. That's the thing. That's what's real. Your consciousness itself does transcend this. Yeah. Find the freedom in that when you ask yourself, "Why can't I be me?" Yeah. That's juicy. Thank you.

And Christian, how do people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
Sure. My website is awalkinthephysical.com. The book is A Walk in the Physical. It's available for free at the third link down on the book page to be read online. It's not about money. I just want to share the message and share the love. And there's a bunch of talks and interviews there. I'm sure I'll be posting this one. This is wonderful. Yeah, that's probably the best way to reach me. Or come to Phoenix. Come to Phoenix in the end of August, and you and I will both be there. It'll be so fun. Oh my gosh, I'm bringing my family—my wife and my kids—that Saturday afternoon, and it's going to be fun. If anybody's near Phoenix, yes, the end of August, the IONS conference.

So, yes, I'm so excited to see you in person, to meet everybody that I've interviewed and others that I'm going to interview, and just be in that energy of celebrating each and every person for who they are. And I just want to say thank you so much, Christian, for joining me today. Thank you for being my first episode of this podcast ever. Thank you. And again, here now, a little bit over a year later, thank you for sharing your heart and your soul, for getting your words out in your book, and just being everywhere and talking—speaking, talking. Yes, talking. And using language to the best of your ability to help us understand. I'll say—I'll make one comment there.

I so it's not just talking, of course. I mean, I say that playfully because there's something else that we're doing, and that is energetic. The words are just a surface thing. Yeah. What's happening in consciousness and in energy space is powerful, and you are participating in that. And that is the coolest thing we can do on Earth right now. So, thank you. And it's an honor. It's awesome. This is the real work. This is the thing. When we're done later, we look back—this is the real work. You know, it's not the money and the objects and the—no. If we can be there for each other and just be authentic and encourage one another as other parts of the self to be themselves, then that is it.

I agree 100%. Thank you so much.

You're welcome. It's been an honor.

I would like to personally thank you for tuning in to this episode. If you haven't already, please be sure to like this episode, subscribe to my channel, and turn on notifications so that you never miss a beat. And if you really resonated with this content, please share it with all of your friends so that collectively we can expand our consciousness. Have a very blessed week.